quote:

Originally posted by Veloce:
The only uniquely Japanese car designs I've ever seen that were actually good were done by Guigiaro and Pininfarina! There's also the new Nissan 350Z that I think is uniquely Japanese... bad styling in my opinion... BUT good because it's unique.

350Z designed NOT by Japanese but by a Coventry graduate, not sure of his nationality but not Asian. Some of the most admired cars ARE designed by Asian like Audi, BMW, Ferrari, etc.
And Guigiaro/ Pininfarina are full if Asian designer in their studios, so what does that tell you?

quote:

Some of the most admired cars ARE designed by Asian like Audi, BMW, Ferrari, etc.
And Guigiaro/ Pininfarina are full if Asian designer in their studios, so what does that tell you?

Ok look, I'm not talking about Asian people, I'm talking about Asian CARS!

I agree with Jabor that all their design expertise can be brought down to one giant Xerox machine.

Zerosoul said:
So what’s Asian company "copying"? It’s mere styling differentiating. And as long as it’s not exactly the same, it doesn’t matter to the consumer who is really paying the money. Does it?

Style Differentiating! Thats a nice word for copying! As long as its "not exactly the same"??? Yeah, you know what, those headlights on this Hyundai aren't EXACTLY the same as a Benz...
http://www.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2004/beijing/images/baic-hyundais.jpg

And you are, of course, right about the consumer. What he buys is what matters. I'm sure that people look at that Hyundai and think "I can have a Mercedes for cheap!" Well, that's pathetic and unfair to Mercedes-Benz! That should be illegal. Is this really your idea of creative??? This is the opposite.

There are alot of people who don't care about what a car looks like. But for many people, they don't want a boring looking car. For me, styling is the most important factor. Cars are like extensions of a person. They tell people alot about a person. Cars are emotional. But, most Asian cars are not emotional. They are not creative.

But, please read my first post on page 3. It is very optimistic.

(For me) I believe the problem with Chinese/ Japanese cars is that, they have no history. Italian, German, British, and American cars all have a rich history. There's no real Japanese dream car. There's more to the badge on a car than the logo. Look at the deep meaning of the cross and serpent of Alfa Romeo, the prancing horse of Ferrari, the raging bull of Lamborghini, the trident of Maserati, and Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Bentley, Ford, etc, etc. They have stories to tell. Does the H of the Honda logo say anything. I mean, are you going to find a book like "Toyota: The Legend"! No.

seeing as most of the asian auto manufacturers have had to play catch up with the other having a round a half century head start how rich do you expect their history to be compared to those that started it?

and i have never met anyone who would mistake a hyundai for a benz...in the case of vehicles exterior styling brings you to the showroom quality closes the deal...and that is where american auto companies have fell off or you can say where asian companies stepped up...

i for one am excited to see what chinese designers come up with the needs of their own market should make for some interesting solutions

quote:

Originally posted by Carking:
What? HAve you never seen a Lexus or something?! Boy do I wonder where they get their ideas from... Clue: it starts with 'Mercedes' and it ends with 'Benz'. BMW isn't safe from them either. Lexus is King rip-off...

lexus is a bimmer beater, are you a chinese?

japan has no legend its because the country is being controlled by americans due to ww2. but speaking of technology. the galant is the first mass produced all-wheel drive car, the rotary engine is produced by mazda although came from the germans, the hybrid synergy of toyota has a lot to tell, the vq engine of nissan and the tuning culture will tell that japanese are the real dream cars

I would disagree...
Alot of japanese cars are original and have character. Things like skylines and AE86 corollas have become icons. That doesn't happen if it looks like any other car.
Lexus design is hardly based on BMW or Merc... What does the new GS look like? Nothing I can think of style wise. Of course they are going to take cues from other manufactueres. They are both classy cars.
I don't see anyone complaining about italian cars when maserati make a car based on the enzo (MC12)...
in my opinion, japan are being alot more original than the U.S...

Just my thoughts.

Ash.

quote:

(For me) I believe the problem with Chinese/ Japanese cars is that, they have no history. Italian, German, British, and American cars all have a rich history. There's no real Japanese dream car. There's more to the badge on a car than the logo. Look at the deep meaning of the cross and serpent of Alfa Romeo, the prancing horse of Ferrari, the raging bull of Lamborghini, the trident of Maserati, and Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Bentley, Ford, etc, etc. They have stories to tell. Does the H of the Honda logo say anything. I mean, are you going to find a book like "Toyota: The Legend"! No.

Does it make the company better that it has a meaningful logo?
Just because japanese cars don't have a heritage, doesn't make them any less significant in the car market. Perhaps you should not concern your ideas purely with aesthetic reasoning and think logically about how significant they are in terms of technology and functionality. If you take the VTEC technology, Germans first invented it, but Japanese companies improved it and put it into production and generated mass revenue. Now, so many companies use a lot of technology developed by the japanese, just like the hybrid system.

quote:

350Z designed NOT by Japanese but by a Coventry graduate, not sure of his nationality but not Asian. Some of the most admired cars ARE designed by Asian like Audi, BMW, Ferrari, etc.
And Guigiaro/ Pininfarina are full if Asian designer in their studios, so what does that tell you?

The designer for the 350z is indian. So that means he's asian.

To Ash:

<< Alot of japanese cars are original and have character. >>

no they are not.

<<Things like skylines and AE86 corollas have become icons.>>

no they are not icons. (but it's funny how you call them "things")

<<That doesn't happen if it looks like any other car.>>

you seriously have to be kidding me. I can't think of any car as ordinary and boring as a corrolla or a skyline.

<<Lexus design is hardly based on BMW or Merc...>>

are you crazy?

<<I don't see anyone complaining about italian cars when maserati make a car based on the enzo>>

first of all, the MC12 looks nothing like the enzo; second, ferrari owns maserati. by the way, it's not proper to even mention italian cars when talking about japanese cars.

<<my opinion, japan are being alot more original than the U.S...>>

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


To acheng:

<<Does it make the company better that it has a meaningful logo?>>

yes.

<<Just because japanese cars don't have a heritage, doesn't make them any less significant in the car market.>>

your right, I never said they weren't, in fact I said the opposite.

<<Perhaps you should not concern your ideas purely with aesthetic reasoning.>>

sorry.

<<If you take the VTEC technology, Germans first invented it, but Japanese companies improved it and put it into production and generated mass revenue.>>

yes, we all know how that works. I think that's how this topic got started and that's what it's about: Europeans/Americans invent, Asian company steals, time to Xerox. But, I haven't even mentioned technology in any of my posts. I've been talking about car styling.

quote:

Originally posted by Veloce:
To Ash:

<< Alot of japanese cars are original and have character. >>

no they are not.

<<Things like skylines and AE86 corollas have become icons.>>

no they are not icons. (but it's funny how you call them "things")

<<That doesn't happen if it looks like any other car.>>

you seriously have to be kidding me. I can't think of any car as ordinary and boring as a corrolla or a skyline.

<<Lexus design is hardly based on BMW or Merc...>>

are you crazy?

<<I don't see anyone complaining about italian cars when maserati make a car based on the enzo>>

first of all, the MC12 looks nothing like the enzo; second, ferrari owns maserati. by the way, it's not proper to even mention italian cars when talking about japanese cars.

<<my opinion, japan are being alot more original than the U.S...>>

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


To acheng:

<<Does it make the company better that it has a meaningful logo?>>

yes.

<<Just because japanese cars don't have a heritage, doesn't make them any less significant in the car market.>>

your right, I never said they weren't, in fact I said the opposite.

<<Perhaps you should not concern your ideas purely with aesthetic reasoning.>>

sorry.

<<If you take the VTEC technology, Germans first invented it, but Japanese companies improved it and put it into production and generated mass revenue.>>

yes, we all know how that works. I think that's how this topic got started and that's what it's about: Europeans/Americans invent, Asian company steals, time to Xerox. But, I haven't even mentioned technology in any of my posts. I've been talking about car styling.

That's a pretty arrogant reply lad...
At least I tried to back up my arguement, even with poor english...
Not just 'LYK NO LOL U R WRONG11'...
I'm aware Maserati are owned by ferrari... But alot of other companies are also owned by other companies...
With your logice of lexus copying of BMW and mercedes... Then that would mean every 'luxury' company copies...
Japanese cars to me are far superiour in styling to american crap, and in most cases euro cars...
Of course this is my opinion and if you want to contest it I would appreciate reasoning and less arrogance...

Thanks,
Ash

veloce, read a car styling or auto design.. not a motor trend.