well i think your first two are better than the last.
also, DLO isn't a "cardesignnews" term. its a standard inustry word that designers use, not something like omg, or wtf that some blogger made up.

anyway, the glass is still terrible small on that last one. proportionally, you're saying that your side glass,(in fact, the height of the whole greenhouse) is only 1/4 the height of your wheel. well lets say you have a 20in. wheel on your car. that means you only have a 5 inch opening around the car, which is nonsense.

you need to learn what good proportions are and how to accurately represent cars before trying to distort them, because yes, they do look like cartoons. compare the last one to the bmw... which one looks believable?

oh, and as far as the design goes, don't feel bad about the last one, because your fears are true, its not very strong... at all. but thats ok because you're just beginning so don't worry about "designing" you need to get your drawing down first. but if you want some points on the design...
the head lights don't match the car, or does the rest of the car not math the headlight? the headlights are very organic, and kind of meandering, while the rest is very (lamborghini like) hard lines and sharp straight creases. the two don't really work together. it looks like you took lights from a Seat or Pugeot and put them on a lambo. also continuity is another big thing. you could stick with the information on the front, but where to those lines go? you have those lines on the side comming from nowhere. they don't connect to the front graphics and while the placement is ok independant of themselves, they're not really doing anything for the design, other than trying to take the car in a direction the front end doesn't want to go.

anyway, sorry this was long, but i hope it helps. keep at it. try to achieve realism then learn to distort to make stuff more graphic.

AMdesign, no need to apologise, long posts are usually the most helpful posts.

Your consistent efforts to convince me that my wheel size and DLO (haha! I've mastered the 'standard inustry' lingo 'that designers use' - is that better?...) are too big and too small, respectively, have caused me to feel that you are giving me faulty advice! Looking through several professional portfolios on this site, I noticed that a number of designers do in fact use similar DLO/wheel size proportions as I have used in my later sketches. And, of course, there are many who don't, it's all just part of their personal style - their way of expressing their ideas in a way that is appealing. You say that this causes a 'cartoony' effect, and I do believe this is true to an extent, but really, it all comes down to the amount of detail put into a sketch.

The BMW looks more convincing because I have properly rendered the headlights and grill, used a more realistic shadow, added bonnet lines and front censer thingies and chrome strips along the side windows and... etc... etc... etc...

To test this theory, I designed yet another car, its a hatchback, (hopefully you would have been able to tell without me pointing it out). I added numerous details absent from previous sketches, most notably, more convincing front headlights. Does this change the 'cartoon' label you have been giving my designs????

Hopefully you'll also notice that I have in fact made the wheels slightly smaller and the DLO slightly greater. What are your thoughts on this?

lastly, I just wanted to add that I'm not actually trying to distort the car views at all, all my latest sketches have been done in simple 2 point perspective... Or were you referring to the distortion of the DLO and wheel size?
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll64/campism/11-05-2008053334PM.jpg

i think these are all pretty decent sketches...some problems here and there but its not terribly noticeable and will naturally get fixed over time with practice. i think ur line strokes are pretty good in car body itself but wheels look too hairy to me. also really think about lgith source and not just about shading but line weight as well. dark areas will have darker and thicker lines while the lightest part will have thin and lgith strokes. shadingwise, keep it as simple as u can, dont try to draw the car, u can see some sketches on the site and ppl just use quick fill or strokes to get teh idea of shadow and form of trhe body so try that as well, but be loose, dont get tightened up, just free it up and dont be afraid of mistakes, and then if u want to touch up parts then go ahead. have fun with it, its ur design and ur car so theres nothing to be afraid of.

quote:

Originally posted by Campism:
AMdesign, no need to apologise, long posts are usually the most helpful posts.

Your consistent efforts to convince me that my wheel size and DLO (haha! I've mastered the 'standard inustry' lingo 'that designers use' - is that better?...) are too big and too small, respectively, have caused me to feel that you are giving me faulty advice! Looking through several professional portfolios on this site, I noticed that a number of designers do in fact use similar DLO/wheel size proportions as I have used in my later sketches. And, of course, there are many who don't, it's all just part of their personal style - their way of expressing their ideas in a way that is appealing. You say that this causes a 'cartoony' effect, and I do believe this is true to an extent, but really, it all comes down to the amount of detail put into a sketch.

yes, what you are looking at are peoples portfolios who know how to draw cars accurately and are producing sketches that are very graphic and visually appealing. everyone uses that at a certain point in time... BUT they'll never be successful with it unless they can accurately draw/design a car. so when the the time comes that you need to accurately show what your design is, all of those exagerated sketches won't mean sh*t. an engineer will laugh in your face. a design director won't understand what you're trying to show him. the point is, sketches like that are good to initially sell an idea, but you will quickly thereafter need accurate sketches and renderings to show your design. and then what do you do?? you've spent all of your time with exagerated sketches and dramatic, wide angle views. do you know how to ACCURATELY design a car? do you know good proportions? they say proportions are everything... the most beautiful cars in the world are built on sound proportions... and i can GUARANTEE you that those cars don't have 5in. glass and 28in. wheels.
like i said before... one learns the basics, sounds proportions, good perspective, accurate drawing ability, then take those tools and make some dynamic sketches, but you will have the ability to be accurate when need be.

the problem here is that you going straight to that style of sketching. you're trying to run when you can't walk. i see you can draw an accurately proportioned car when studying a reference imaage, but you loose it when trying your own thing. so it's useless to tell yourself that you're on the right path doing that. all of those pictures you see, and all of those designers... well they've been through or are in design school... they've spent the time in classes learning all the accurate aspects of design.. now they're just trying to sell their ability through dynamic sketching and cool forms. which yes, like i said, that sells, but don't think for a second that any possibleemployer doesn't expect accurate design. because when it comes down to it, that's a designer's job. otherwise your worhtless.

and what you said about the details... well that really doesn't matter. i've seen a person but 3 or 4 lines on a page and it looks amazing, because im immediately getting an idea of the proportions and shape of the vehicle. you can take out the headlights, the tailights, logos, accents, all that graphic b.s... but do you still have a sound form? a sketch/rendering/design/final production model that relys on those elements to attempt success will never find it. its all in form and proportions. learn them study them, and know them. go looks up pics of some cool old cars. they don't have all the bells and whistles and crazy graphic elements that cars today need... but they're still beautiful. why? proportions. looks at a DB4, or a 250gt lwb california. those cars are loved the world over and it have nothing to do with their headlights. its the shape and the proportions.

look, again, sorry for a long response, but im just trying to help. looking at professional work is good, but you're not there... your just starting. and you don't start with that stuff. so the argument that learning from the beginning that style of sketching is good is nonsense. it will never help if you don't have sound ability behind it. again, good luck.

Wow, awesome post AMdesign! I totally get what your trying to say. You've finally gotten through to me!

Thanks

loosen up your hand.. let it flow baby!

@AMdesign
its not that proportions in a render(sketch) aren't important - but - in reality proportions are not set by the designer, but by the engineer

First of all I looked at your drawings you provided, I would say there's room for improvement. The best thing to do is try working on a line style to add some integrity to your work. Secondly it's a great idea to never ask friends or family unless they have any artistic background. Lastly using Bjork as a reference to bad work Isn't a good idea being that she's a musical pioneer in sound and vocals. I would listen again and try learning that creating a hybrid style in any art form is "really good", and it will seperate you from all the generic designers out there.

www.olivercartwright.com

Hah, didn't mean to upset you terraformer, just wanted to write as much as possible to get a reaction from you guys and spark some replies as I noticed that the people who simply write "I drew this... Discuss" don't actually get anyone replying. Anyways, the overwhelming number of replies of help and advice have been great!

Now terraformer, by line style what exactly do you mean? Do you speak of a more simplified/ stylized rendering technique or simply of line quality? I do believe I need to improve on both though.

You seriously need to know the basics of perspective first.
Then learn about form/shapes.
Then perhaps some sense of proportions.
Add all that up and just practice.

You can worry about headlight shape, etc later.