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Does any one listen to Lady tron or is just me?

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sorry man, never heard of em

I think it's Ladytron, and I only know one song of them "They only want you when you're seventeen" or something. Which was pretty catchy.

Wisniewska,

Hm, are we annoying some people?

Back to the kitchen, and the fast food you so deliciously described. At certain times, I happen to appreciate fast food (though not the McDubious variety). It has a different effect on the senses than a great meal: it's less sophisticated, but gives the sort of instant satisfaction only an overdose of grease can bring. Erm.. yes. It doesn't work all the time, but I sure need the occasional french fries. And I see that distinction everywhere. I like a great movie, but sometimes I'll just want to go numb and watch car chases and slapstick (which would still have to be executed properly, though!). It has a whole different purpose, and therefore I find it awkward when people rate Top Gun by the plot, for instance (and the opposite: people who dislike a Kubrick or Godard film because "there was no action"). Should Tony Scott get concessions when making an action movie like Top Gun? Absolutely not. Back to music... If you need some time out from using your brain, Britney is it (although she could do with some time on, but that's her problem). Having said that, I believe only a few Britney songs ever "worked".

Now, if someone made a song like Fighter, and believed it is a great piece of art, that would bother me. The purpose does indeed matter when rating a final product. Suppose the new Lotus sportscar would be something like a Renault Espace. It'd be a good car, but as a sportscar, it'd fail magnificently.

The opera thing: Plenty of opera's were written merely to entertain their audiences, as was plenty of other classical music. Not sure about Wagner though. But you'd have every right to be amused. I too laugh at certain things which weren't meant to be funny. But if something was meant to be deeply serious, and you can't help cracking up, that might say something about the quality of the work itself.

Groups vs. single artists:
- I was saying something like a Britney album is a group effort too. The only difference is that she's the only one getting the credit.
- To some extent, one person's music is also the result of a clash of opinions, as that one person will create a synthesis of the different things he was exposed to. A group effort, being the result of constant confrontation, will in the end also result in a synthesis. I do see your point though.

Yes, I'm not talking about just any pop music. There's quite a bit of "pop" which I rate much higher musically than the sort of stuff we're on about, thankfully. But I'm sure you have an idea about which bands/artists I'm targetting.

Yeah, we are annoying some people around here. Oh well, we can't do anything about that, so let's move on

I actually eat McDubious every now and then, and it's not bad, as long as you don't think about what's inside their burgers. There's also a difference between junk and fast food. Burger King, KFC and Maccers is mostly junk (well, except their salads perhaps, which aren't that bad by the way), but I would consider a nice kebab that is freshly prepared in front of you as fast food.

Sometimes you have to watch a bad movie to appreciate the really good ones, although not even ten horses could drag me to a session of 'Dude, where's my car?', that movie has left me traumatised But you can't compare movies with music. Movies have a physical visual component, whereas music in its pure form doesn't. By the way, I'm interested about hearing from you abour which Britney songs 'work'.

The purpose does indeed matter when rating a final product. Suppose the new Lotus sportscar would be something like a Renault Espace. It'd be a good car, but as a sportscar, it'd fail magnificently.

Yeah, but purpose doesn't matter if you review the product's quality and aesthetics, does it

The only synthesis going on with most pop artists is that their voices are pulled through the synthesizer. I don't believe that Aguillera for example has not much say in what she does. She doesn't write the melodies and lyrics to her songs as far as I know (there could be one or two exemptions, though), so the only contribution she does to the music that is published in her name is her voice.

The only thing I know about you classifying artists as 'pop' is that Tom Waits isn't definitly one of them, and I agree 100% on that one

Mogwai- Hunted By A Freak

simply...beautiful

Nastazja,
I've had little time for extensive forum discussions lately, and this will have to be brief too. But I decided I've kept you waiting long enough.

In sum, it seems you're more inclined to neglect the composer and his intentions/personality when rating a piece of music. There's a lot to be said for that view, but I don't fully agree with it. However, I'm not even sure anymore if that discussion is needed to make my point. So I'll try another way. I think we agree that someone like Christina fails in terms of art. But here's the difference: you think it's bad, invaluable art. I think it's bad as art, which doesn't mean it should be thrown away altogether. Regardless of the intention of the composer/producers/whatever, it can still work on a lower level (at a party, to dance to, simply as background music, etc), where more valuable music could even be found inappropriate. If some people think Christina's songs are deep/great, that's their right. However, for those of us who don't think that, the question is: should we find a higher value in all the music we listen to, or could it still serve a purpose without it? A purpose which more meaningful music might not even serve equally well...?

I'm interested about hearing from you abour which Britney songs 'work'. - briefly: Baby One More Time, Born to Make You Happy (awful crap, but such a catchy tune... *blush*), and to a lesser degree, Toxic. Other commercial crap I like: Genie in a Bottle (C.A.), All Saints (mostly their first album), some Sophie Ellis Bextor tracks, some vintage Kylie Minogue, etc. I'd also say Robbie Williams, but I happen to rate him higher. No boys bands and such then. Probably not a coincidence.

Wow, and i kinda hate punk bands that make it big too, The worst band i ever heard is YeahYeahYeahs, one song had a good mellody to it but it was ****.
"should we find a higher value in all the music we listen to, or could it still serve a purpose without it? A purpose which more meaningful music might not even serve equally well...?"

I dont know good ?tion, even though i ask ?yions in the way you do i cant quite understand you, but this is what i think.

I think music plays a big role because music can give you the power to change someones opinion or make a person do or belive something totally then they had before. the music that i think change people the most is Rap and Rock and Pop.

Rap: can turn you into a person of stereotypes and do every thing you can to fit, thus stripping you of thought and mind, so thats what my teacher meant when she said that we are still slaves mentally.

Rock(heavy metal): can make you do some things too. just like GTA, or any other videogame. but you cant blame any types of media for non-self control.

And Pop well; that can turn you into a fanatic... well a very scary person with posters and every magazine that Brittany or Christina were in.( dont know why im useing them as examples ) so to answer the first part of your /tion is no, everyone has there own Tastes of music but if your not that fanboy/girl kind of person, which i am not a fan boy,go ahead and look for better music. i know i do somtimes.

lol...

V&G, your saying that Rock or Heavy Metal may make one do "something" "just like GTA" or "any other videogame" really amuses me. Luckily I read on and found "you cant blame the media"

well, I would have tried to explain it the other way round actually:

IF there is a certain inclination to being angry, then a videogame of a certain kind, and music of a certain kind can make you take the next step. A normal person, and I've got the definition of normal somewhere around here in my psychology-books, is very unlikely to be MADE aggressive, even when there's constant surrounding of heavy metal and videogames.
An example?

ME.

Brief Summary: I listenend to Rhapsody, some European( german + italian "artists") Heavy Metal or Epic Metal band. Even worse for people with prejudices, I listenend to it WHILE playing GTA, Soldiers of Fortune 2, and the Postal2Demo...now...one might think, I should have run amok three times since then...but for me, quite the opposite happened. NOT that I ever was very aggressive, but there was no change whatsoever in my behaviour, except one:
I can't listen to Rhapsody anymore

However, I DO get aggressive when I see people playing games that are EVEN LESS complex than GTA...with all their gameboys advance and Nintendos and in the US it might be NECs and whatever..

Well, back to music:

Rap and HipHop...lol...well: Listened to that, too. In fact, quite extensively, YET before I ever had a PC...Then there was the shift to Heavy Metal...and now it's electronica, TripHop, maybe a little Rock ( Mogwai )...
There's ONE thing that I disliked from the beginning: You can find very few videos of rappers not showing

- "almost"-nudes
- the rapper's big, posh, CAR, filled, stuffed, QUILTED with naked women.
- the rapper's necklace-collection, bouncing around when he raps INTO the camera with a close-up, always with glasses, and always those strange signs they form with their hands...I mean...west coast/east coast...lol...it becomes more and more ridiculous.

BUT, I must say, I 've come to tolerate a few rappers...First, it's MosDef, mainly because he did the Blade2Soundtrack with Massive Attack
Then, it's Jay Z, because there's AWESOME instrumental on "99 problems"...I'd really like to get the instrumental version only!...but where from?

Yeah well...that's very few...and I don't think I can place Eminem in that category...funny enough, it was he who I hated most of all, because his "leave-me-alone-I'm-16-I'm-angry-at-my-mother-syndrome-style" seemed so imposed.
YET, at least when he tries being funny, he _is_ from my point of view. The totally unexpected change from "my band" to "my salsa"...lol, I burst out in laughter the first time I saw this!

Well, all in all:

My musical taste is E:\Music\Electronica\TripHop, so to say
And I guess, there won't be any changes...I mean, if you listen at "Angel" or "Group4" by Massive Attack, would you ever think it's electronica? Me, no. TripHop covers a wide variety, and maybe that's why I like it...Also, especially Massive Attack's got this really great bass and beats in Mezzanine, and although there's been quite a change in 100th Window( I guess not only becos 2 out of 3 artists didn't work on it and left DelNaja alone in the studio), it's great nonetheless! Because it's different.And some melodies are really...sweet.

Well...what am I doing? Writing an essay...

AD i agree with you wit the rap videos, and some rappers **** up the most beautiful cars, like i saw a 300C with like 22s on it and it made it extremly ugly, but Rims look best on Fullsize suvs, like the Escalade.
But i never get tierd of seeing videogirls

But i dont like the stereo types in rap videos and what there puting into the minds of people who watch them.

and to me and GTA, i play because its fun and i use it to release my anger while listeing to Eminem, or some rock group.

the three things i would have in a song is a 808kick, a melody using a guitar and some strange noises that match, and someone singing.

Well i guess you could say this is a disfunktional world (notice i used"Funk" lol)

I guess you are writing a essay. Or me.

well...I realized some time ago..I like music with layers, all of which can be recognized when concenrating on them, i.e. I listen to the beats, and they are interesting, then I listen to the guitar, etc. and then I listen to all of it, and if you really concentrate on the music, and let all of those layers come in simultaneously it's just beautiful.

On the other hand, there are some song that strike me with their sheer simpleness ( or stupid repetition, depending on pov), like StaticX- Love Dump...

Some songs...like "Angel" by Massive Attack strike me with their great tension that is built up...and...then...there's Moby's Flower which just...sounds cool.

And I don't know why.