I have yet to see any major software that can't do Class A, though I have met several users of said software that could not.

It comes down to basics, which are NOT software dependant. Sure each software package has its little issues but overall the fundamentals are what matter.

My best suggestion is to learn to evaluate surface, this will help you to better understand when, where and why to break a surface, or when, where and why you should add complexity in an area.

Some companies have extremely tight tolerances, which I have to question as no tooling I know of can achieve such tolerances. In the end look for good flowing highlights, smooth reflection lines, and continuous Gaussian.

Use your evaluation tool a lot!! Shoot for curvature continuous surface on most everything you do, (other than small Rads. 3.0mm or less as an example).

I would not tell you that any one surface patch count is best as these are situational and should be treated as such. Experience will tell you when to use what.



PS: Your links didn’t work for me, so my response is a little general.

" I hope someone in Autodesk hear this: Put the ST’s features and tools into Maya and say "No, thanks" to Studio’s interface"

amen, to that

what i like about maya is that it surpasses by far the customization capabilities and also it provides an environment for true parametric modeling which is not the case of studio...
i have a question : can you make a suggestion as to what software to use for freeform modeling? which would be the closest to maya?

thanks

As for a highly customizable UI and true free form modeler with true and flexible construction history and a fast and robust Class-A modeler with the most precise and advanced evaluators and continuity checker, the closest thing to Maya in term of speed and UI is Imageware from UGS. I have not tried ICEMs but for me Imageware is the best it is very expensive but the best to work with for reverse engineering too it can support any degree from 1 to 22. But it's not a shame to say for most of my projects where I have to transfer my idea directly from brain into computer's screen I use Maya to rapidly define the shape and volumes and make my basic curves cage and send it to Imageware for Class A modeling and sending them into great Unigraphics for further development. I still use STs frequently because of some of their interesting features and for organizing my scene for rendering in ImageStudio or Maya or other software.
As a cheaper choice but a highly capable free form and solid hybrid modeler you can check Ashlar Vellum Cobalt too.

akh154 , thanks for the share of information...
one thing that all of us have in common seems to be our point of view regarding maya... duncan, from alias, once said that it (maya) was to replace studio alltogether > which meant translating all it's surfacing capabilities into maya thus merging it with it's outstanding speed in model construction and roughening out... too bad...

One another view on this
Studio tools exist very long time – It was used for design purposes much before PC-s in its today’s shape even exist. Then they use Silicon Graphic Workstations. It was used in both cases – not only industrial design, but also in case of computer animation, production etc. 1996-97 Alias (than that was Silicon Graphics department) make decision on its customers needs to create one totally new one package with name Maya. Why they do that. Studio Tools has very powerful package for design but in animations, and all other fields connected to production (special effects, dynamics, composing etc), it has “stagnation” and some new one and cheep packages star stilling its market just in that areas where Studio is week.
Maya has been from beginning created in with new and familiar “GUI” and have covered all needs for production, postproduction etc – fields where Studio Tools has very week usability. With those two packages Alias Company succeed not only to keep its old customers from those two fields, but to make new ones also.
Maya has been built on long (10 and more years) experience of creating and developing Studio Tools, not to mention that Alias with that move implement in Maya much already implemented in Studio. Implemented experience means very great stability, usability, which mean much more than money in today’s time.
This is my personal view on things you talk about, and I wrote that because I am witness of all those facts since 1994. I am user of Studio tools since those days, 1995-6 I try Max (very unstable and problematic). I use Maya regularly from beginning (98-99 I can remember exactly).
Studio Tools is still in production and constant development, because it has its market where Maya cant compete. That is industrial design. One is making model for production where 0.001 mm means something and totally another thing is creating for presentation purposes. In design centre where I work I am user of ProEngineer – Wildfire – main design package plus we often use Studio Tools like for some phases of ideas research, sketching etc (we often use also Sketch Book Pro also). For animation, and all other presentation – marketing purposes we use Maya. Using those 3 packages in TRIO is very good thing. PTC and Alias has developed one new thing called granite for interchanging designs (models – geometry) btw Alias and PTC products without and loos of information’s (I am witness that loose of information’s in on very small level like loosing coordinating sys and similar things)

The last few posts on this topic didn't mean by no way Maya is a better tool for an industrial designer than STs but maya is a handy tool to quickly develop your idea for early stages of design when you don't need to care about those 0.001 mm tolerances and curvature graphs when the styling and dimensions have not been frozen yet, thanks to its superior GUI and speed. it would be far easier to rebuild the final model in your favorite CAD or surface modeler on what you have made earlier in Maya or a similar quick modeler. My point was if you appreciate Maya's speed and GUI the closest thing in my experience as a true surface modeler is Imageware from UGS, highly customizable and highly accurate. That opinion has been based on my experience whit major CAD packages like Unigraphics, Catia and Pro Engineer to Solidworks, Solid Edge, Delcam PowerShape, Cobalt, etc; and high-end surface modelers except ICEM Surf. I have worked with MAX since version 2 and for modeling I have not found it unstable or problematic though. Anyhow any levels of comfort with any software can only be achieved by the time someone has spent with it to finish at least a couple of jobs then someone can make a true comparision of what can work best for that particular person.
Granite is the kernel of Wildfires developed by PTC and Alias made its DirectConnect compatible to Granites file format for a direct data exchange as well as what they did for Catia and Unigraphics.

what i've learnt from these past few posts is that many designers have been at least fiddling with maya if not even more, and from their testimonies i can gather that they find it to be an extremely weel 'designed' tool especially caring about freedom and creativity.. from what i can tell alias studio has become more of a 'movie' tool, various fx/animation houses admiting on more than one ocasion to using it for modeling purposes (even organic) - so then i'm wondering: if so many (in the fields of special fx) turn to studio for modeling then why not integrate at least some of its features into maya?...
personally (and i feel somewhat ashamed) i find solidworks to be a more viable solution because it provides a truly parametric solution -which for begginers is heaven- to modelling, something that maybe on maya's backbone could be easier implemented that rewriting studio all over...
as for imageware, icem i didn't have the chance to run them...

""what i've learnt from these past few posts is that many designers have been at least fiddling with maya if not even more, and from their testimonies i can gather that they find it to be an extremely weel 'designed' tool especially caring about freedom and creativity.. from what i can tell alias studio has become more of a 'movie' tool,""

Surely you have the two mixed up.

ALias, studio tools, autostudio et al are primarily used in the design/ automotive design indusrty.

I know of movie set designers etc who exclusivley use Maya for its render / animation strengths.

well, you may be right but i know a couple of movies where studio was used > like the tanks in hulk - built with alias < and reading these forums i learn more and more about exactly what position alias ocupies in the production workflow of this & that big car manufacturer > and that always seems to start with 'pre-'... pre visualization, pre conceptualization etc ...

I have the chance to work in the car design industry for nearly 16 years as a modeler.
First as a clay modeler and now as a digital modeler.
Alias Studio tools is the reference tool for everyone who is creating in the indsutry.
Rhino, solid work and all these softwares are good for beginer and it's ok for a start if you want to be familiar in digital modeling, but when it come the time to work in car design industry you got to be good on studio tools.
And it take times to be a real pro with such a sofware like studio tools.
So if you looking for a modeling software, learning Alias Studio tools is really important to my point of view.
As a former clay modeler working in NURBS technic is really great.
You ad designer sketches in top & side view, that way you can start to create a model very quickly and show to the designer what he wants.
Of course in matter of rendering maya is more appropriate but also for quick image render studio tools or Image studio are good enough.
Icem surf is much more difficult to use, specialy when you're used to work with Alias interface.too many windows to open to get the right tools, but surface quality is good.
So Alias & Icem are leading in car industry,at least here in Europe, in matter of modeling.
Regards,